Image

help with using steal whip as base antenna

Help with installing an Antenna, or just choosing the right antenna to go with your radio, or your mobile.

Moderator: JR Moderator

User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM

After being off the air about 8 years ive decided to start playing radio again,

I have radios, no antennas so thought why not just make one, sounds fun saves toad pelts,

I go hunting online info to save time and money,

Of course every cat who has made his own antenna says his works the best,

I want to start with questions i have on the tried and true 102 whip,
I see guys use these for bases but they omit the spring
And just use the antenna to cable adaptor, boted on or through a bracket now its less that 108 1/4 wave,

Wont it be near impossible to get good swrs with the reduced length?

I thought as a base station antenna i do not need the sping so could i just use a spacer to make up the length to 108,
Or am i thinking too much and 102 is fine?
How does one fine tune a 102 whip, my thought add washers at the adaptor,

Next,
Many guys use radials on the ground cable braid side,
I saw a style with one radial pointing straight down,
And another with 2 radials pointing at downward angles out left and right,

But ideally wouldnt i want 4 radials even spaced and horizontal?

Some use 102 some 108" radials which really is best?

Then should this rig be mounted to a steal pole that is earth grounded and is comment with the radials or isolated from them and the cable braid side?

If the steal mount is in common its it like another radial?

Okay, enough for now,
Thanks for any help,
Cheers,
Bats

[ Post made via Android ] Image


User avatar
295 antenna
Mod Duck
Mod Duck
Posts: 588
Joined: Sunday, 23 October 2016, 21:45 PM
Radio: optima ,cobra 148ex
Antenna: patriot,brownig
Name: Charles Reney
Cell Phone: 760-672-1257

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by 295 antenna » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 7:43 AM

Check this out:
Keep smiling ...It makes people wonder what your up too !

American eagle member : AE1577
TWRC Member : WR2950



User avatar
295 antenna
Mod Duck
Mod Duck
Posts: 588
Joined: Sunday, 23 October 2016, 21:45 PM
Radio: optima ,cobra 148ex
Antenna: patriot,brownig
Name: Charles Reney
Cell Phone: 760-672-1257

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by 295 antenna » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 7:46 AM

I realize the vid says get the stud mount at radio shack but ,this is an old video. i would check with our sponsors for mounting parts
Keep smiling ...It makes people wonder what your up too !

American eagle member : AE1577
TWRC Member : WR2950



User avatar
MDYoungblood
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7416
Joined: Saturday, 12 June 2010, 19:05 PM
Radio: Uniden Washington
Antenna: Avanti Sigma II
Name: Greg
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by MDYoungblood » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 11:58 AM

I would actually start with a much simpler antenna, a 1/2 wave dipole. They are easy to make out of a "dollar store" 9ft extention cord. This would get you "on the air" in an hour or less.

3's

Greg
"321, the Middle of Maryland"

23 AM "WORLD WIDE" 38 LSB

Strong Supporter of America's Original Homeland Security Act
The Second Amendment



Official Moderator - CBRT Complaint Department



User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 15:36 PM

Thanks guys,

That crypticcricket video is the one that fueled many of the questions i asked seeking answers to,

I did toss together a dipole and unless am cb is way dead here, all 40 have had zero talk....
I do not even hear truckers on 19, tried 3 radios

[ Post made via Android ] Image


User avatar
MDYoungblood
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7416
Joined: Saturday, 12 June 2010, 19:05 PM
Radio: Uniden Washington
Antenna: Avanti Sigma II
Name: Greg
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by MDYoungblood » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 16:36 PM

The13Bats wrote:
Thursday, 16 November 2017, 15:36 PM
Thanks guys,

That crypticcricket video is the one that fueled many of the questions i asked seeking answers to,

I did toss together a dipole and unless am cb is way dead here, all 40 have had zero talk....
I do not even hear truckers on 19, tried 3 radios

[ Post made via Android ] Image

CB is not as active as it was in the past but you should here AM traffic channel 6 and 28 down in the Orlando area, I have heard a couple SSB'ers on 38 as well. Could be the height of the dipole or it's surroundings, most times a dipole is horizontally polarized even in a inverted V configuration. You can find other videos and plenty of sites on building a 1/4 wave, also use the search feature on the forum, a lot of info there too.

3's

Greg
"321, the Middle of Maryland"

23 AM "WORLD WIDE" 38 LSB

Strong Supporter of America's Original Homeland Security Act
The Second Amendment



Official Moderator - CBRT Complaint Department



User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Thursday, 16 November 2017, 20:37 PM

I moved from orlando to eustis, but im within 3 miles of 441 and then bay street through eustis,

I know the radios have ears so must be the antenna,

I remember 20 30 years ago i could unhook my antenna and still hear some of those cats,

[ Post made via Android ] Image

User avatar
The DB
Skipshooter
Skipshooter
Posts: 461
Joined: Friday, 12 August 2011, 21:17 PM
Radio: Galaxy DX 55HP
Antenna: ¼λ Mobile Antenna.
Name: Steve
Location: Gateway City in the Show Me State
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The DB » Friday, 17 November 2017, 8:16 AM

The13Bats wrote:
Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM
I want to start with questions i have on the tried and true 102 whip,
I see guys use these for bases but they omit the spring
And just use the antenna to cable adaptor, boted on or through a bracket now its less that 108 1/4 wave,

Wont it be near impossible to get good swrs with the reduced length?

I thought as a base station antenna i do not need the sping so could i just use a spacer to make up the length to 108,
Or am i thinking too much and 102 is fine?
How does one fine tune a 102 whip, my thought add washers at the adaptor,
Not necessarily. If we were in a perfect world where the conductors we use for antennas were all perfect (i.e. no losses) and nothing around the antenna would affect it in any way, then this may be somewhat true, but we don't. Just being in a real world environment more often than not has the effect of shortening the resonant length of the antenna. What I would normally say next you already did...
The13Bats wrote:
Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM
When it comes to the antenna mounted as in the video above, you can also tune it by adjusting the length of the radials. If the vertical element is electrically short, you can compensate by making the radials slightly electrically long.
That is something that almost no one ever considers, however is a perfectly legitimate way to tune one of these antennas.
The13Bats wrote:
Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM
Next,
Many guys use radials on the ground cable braid side,
I saw a style with one radial pointing straight down,
And another with 2 radials pointing at downward angles out left and right,

But ideally wouldnt i want 4 radials even spaced and horizontal?
One radial straight down will be the other half of a center fed dipole, and said radial will technically not be considered a radial. You only need four radials for optimal performance if the radials are horizontal. If they are angled you can get away with fewer radials. The old Starduster antenna, for example, came with three angled radials.
The13Bats wrote:
Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM
Some use 102 some 108" radials which really is best?
Best would be to start with them a bit long then tune them by cutting them to length (or at the very least folding the ends back on themselves) and using an SWR meter or an antenna analyzer, or my favorite, a field strength meter, to tune them to length.
The13Bats wrote:
Wednesday, 15 November 2017, 22:38 PM
Then should this rig be mounted to a steal pole that is earth grounded and is comment with the radials or isolated from them and the cable braid side?

If the steal mount is in common its it like another radial?
Yes and no. Electricity likes to travel the path of least resistance. For RF, that path for that side of the antenna will be the 1/4 wavelength radials you are putting on the antenna. It would take a very unlucky length for the mast/feed line for it to attract a lot of said RF. Its not impossible, but it also isn't very likely. If you were not planning on using (near) 1/4 wavelength radials on an antenna of some sort, something like isolation might be needed. One of the main jobs of the radial system is to control said RF currents, and keep them where we want them to be.


The DB

User avatar
Spiderleggs
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 49
Joined: Saturday, 20 March 2010, 14:53 PM

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by Spiderleggs » Friday, 17 November 2017, 18:22 PM

I made a base antenna once using a steel whip. I mounted it to a ten foot pole, used a 9 ft piece of speaker wire at a 45 degree angle as the counterpoise, tied a piece of string to the end of the wire and the other end of the string to an eyebolt and pushed the eyebolt into the ground with my hand. SWR was 1.2 and talked skip on it. Only thing I had to buy that I didn't have was the $2.99 eyebolt. Did it for kicks.

User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Friday, 17 November 2017, 23:17 PM

Okay, for example so i can wrap my brain around it,

Lets say you had 5 102 whips,

One mounted as the main vertical and the other 4 as the horizontal radials

Would that be considered a good design?

Would the droop of the radials matter?

[ Post made via Android ] Image

User avatar
443 Arizona
Wordwide & Qualified
Wordwide & Qualified
Posts: 667
Joined: Thursday, 29 April 2010, 13:22 PM
Radio: madison on 5/8 wave
Location: phoenix, arizona

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by 443 Arizona » Saturday, 18 November 2017, 5:38 AM

that would be a start but i would make the vertical whip 5 to 9" longer. maybe fashion a tophat using 4 alligator clips too. do you have an swr meter?

User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Monday, 20 November 2017, 16:51 PM

Okay, more theory questions,

Which is better for around town talking,

A vertical dipole style, made with soft wire or ridged whips,

Or an antenna with one vertical and 4 horizotal radials,
Or 3 angled radials...

Thanks,

[ Post made via Android ] Image

User avatar
The DB
Skipshooter
Skipshooter
Posts: 461
Joined: Friday, 12 August 2011, 21:17 PM
Radio: Galaxy DX 55HP
Antenna: ¼λ Mobile Antenna.
Name: Steve
Location: Gateway City in the Show Me State
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The DB » Monday, 20 November 2017, 20:57 PM

The13Bats wrote:
Monday, 20 November 2017, 16:51 PM
Okay, more theory questions,

Which is better for around town talking,

A vertical dipole style, made with soft wire or ridged whips,

Or an antenna with one vertical and 4 horizotal radials,
Or 3 angled radials...

Thanks,

[ Post made via Android ] Image
If the tips of the antennas are at the same height, you won't notice the difference between them.


The DB

User avatar
The13Bats
4 PILL USER
4 PILL USER
Posts: 22
Joined: Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 3:55 AM
Location: Whorlando
Contact:

Re: help with using steal whip as base antenna

Post by The13Bats » Monday, 20 November 2017, 21:43 PM

Thanks, im getting my data together on what i wanna build,

So i was looking to buy some coax, i figure im in a tall 4 story and can stick an atenna on the roof, so why not,

Back 20 years the coax was about .50 but now what im seeing offered is about .25 what i always considered was for mobile set ups

Its that.25 stuff good enough for stock cb use?

[ Post made via Android ] Image


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests