First Base Station

[Big Ben]

I really enjoy talking on my CB while mobile, so I want to set up my first base station. Only problem is, I live in a subdivision whose HOA (home owners association) has rules against antennas being installed on lots within the neighborhood. This has led me to think about rigging up some sort of indoor antenna to use. I know firestik makes one, but it's only five feet and has short little radials. I think I could make something better for less money. I was thinking of taking a 102 inch whip, putting a six inch extension on it (I'm guessing a spring would be the easiest thing to use), and making a ground plane out of some sheet metal sandwiched between the top part of the stud and a baking tray (so top to bottom it would be antenna, extension/spring, top of the stud, sheet metal, baking tray, bottom of the stud, then coax going to radio). I would then set this on the floor of the bonus room of my house. The reason I want to incorporate the baking tray was I need some way of getting the ground plane off of the ground (sounds weird I know) so I have room for the bottom of the stud and to connect the coax. I was reading about radials for base staions on the internet, and saw some suggesting 108 inch radials. Does this mean I would need a 108 by 108 inch square of sheet metal? I surely hope not. People don't have that much ground plane when they run these things mobile.

Any insight/ suggestions?

[Corn_Bread]

you could use 108" of wire.. 1 if you antenna is high enough. you could run it straight down.. or more than that make an x or so out of it on the bottom...

i use a dipole..2 piece 110" of 12/2 house wire.. you could use what ever gauge... 3 pvc pipes and my tree... solder one wire on the feedline, other on the shield. used the pvc pipe with 2 hole drilled it in for each of the wires.. then used the other piece on the end with 1 hole drilled.. wrapped the excess wire around the pvc until my swr's where low.. i had them at 1.3.. right now there 1.5 but my coax is put together with barrel connectors and i think maybe some moisture has gotten in them.. but it works pretty well for a hidden antenna gonna try to raise that baby up some when the weather breaks.

['Doc]

Big Ben,
That "groundplane" thingy isn't exactly what you might think it it. It is what amounts to the 'other half' of an antenna, the vertical part being only half of it. That 'other half' can be a wire, or tubing, or a vehicle's metal body. It's 'shape' is variable to a large extent, but do have to have a couple of electrical characteristics to 'work' right. That's why car bodies or those radials on a groundplane type antenna work at all. The one thing that is common to all of those 'other half's is that they are conductive, gotta be metal of some kind. Another thingy that they have in common is that they use something called 'coupling' to make up for any 'size' differences. Which is why mag-mount antennas work at all. One of the things that a car body does is 'couple' with the dirt/concrete/whatever the vehicle is sitting on. The car's metal body acts as one capacitor plate, the stuff it's sitting on acts as the other plate of a capacitor, so it's capacitivelly coupled.
An indoor antenna as you propose isn't going to have a lot it can 'couple to in an average kind of house, just not much metal in a house sort of. So, giving that antenna something to use as it's 'other half' is a very good idea. That can be just a length of wire or whatever. It does have to have a particular size though. That size is usually the same 'length' as the other part of the antenna, or about 8 - 9 feet of conductor. One very nice way of thinking about that is in terms of a dipole antenna. One half of it vertical, the other half horizontal. Wanna add another 'horizontal' leg to it to make it sort of symmetrical? That'll work too, add as many as you want (or that she will let you get away with). You gotta have at least one, more won't hurt anything.
And because everything around an antenna affects it's 'tune', you will have to tune that antenna to get it 'right'. that usually means adjusting the lengths of the vertical and horizontal pieces. Those vertical and horizontal parts typically work out to around 104 inches, give or take an inch or two. Start too long and work down, is the easiest way of going about it.
Have fun.
- 'Doc

[Big Ben]

I promise I'm still here y'all. I had a whole long reply typed out but then my phone decided to refresh the page and I lost it. I don't have time to retype it right now, but I will soon. Thanks.

[grandpaclint]

you could not GIVE me a house in a H.O.A.

have fun, and good luck

[De_Wildfire]

My vertical antenna is inside the trees and comes above the tree line. It is painted green. I also have poles inside the trees which I run wire for my other antennas. Are you allowed to put up a flag pole? You want to fly old glory as high as you can get her and the antenna would be right under their noses.

[Big Ben]

When I logged back in last time, I noticed that the forum seemed to have eaten a lot of the posts. Those were filled with valuable info and I'd like to get them back if i could. Moderators, could you help with that, or are they gone? I fear the latter, but who knows.

From what I can remember from the last two posts that got eaten (the ones I hadn't replied to):

231: You clarified that you meant a vertical dipole when you were talking about following the bark of the tree. Thanks for the clarification. I think that was also the post where you told me the best way to attach the radials to the indoor antenna should i decide to make it (which I probably won't, seeing as I have all these great suggestions on how to conceal and outdoor antenna now). Thanks. If theres any thing else I'm forgetting, let me know. It's been a week or so since I your post, so I may be forgetting something.

drdx: You were talking about how I should forget about making an antenna with buried radials like you did and said that I should put an all wire antenna up high in the tall trees in my back yard. You also mentioned that you suggest that I make an antenna with horizontal radials, and not a vertical dipole. Why do you suggest this? What advantages would this antenna provide over a vertical dipole? I might be able to pull off the horizontal radial antenna, but I'm concerned about concealabilty. If my neighbors ever see the antenna, I will most likely never be able to put up an outdoor antenna ever again, because both they and the HOA will be looking for it.

You also talked about being stealthy about my CB hobby. This is good advice, but I'm afraid it's too late for that. I have been parking in my driveway with my antenna on my car for some time now. Anyone who has ridden in my car has seen my CB, and anyone who knows my car has seen my antenna. So, all of my friends and at least most of my neighbors know. I also talk locally to a friend of mine over the CB regularly, so he definitely knows. And I drive around town with my antenna on my car, talking on my radio all the time.

See, when I first started getting into CB, my mentality was: "I'm only gonna talk locally to a couple of my friends and anyone else around here, so I'm, not gonna need any more power. I'm just gonna use my legal four watts, and be done with it." I don't like trying to step on people or anything like that, so I thought thats all I'd ever need. So, I made no effort to conceal my hobby.

Well, now that I'm startin to get in to the whole skip thing, I may need to change my strategy a little. I plan on getting a SSB for my base. If I ever did get an amp, it would be something clean, like a texas star or something. I need a clean signal for ssb and I don't want to cause interference or bleed over anyway. If I were to get a radio with a slightly higher output, or run a small, clean amp, and put a low pass filter on it, I should be fine, shouldn't I? I'm never gonna run a lot of power, and I may just see what I can do with a barefoot ssb radio and good base antenna setup. I'm not tryin to get to China here, just a few states away and I'll be satisfied.

you could use 108" of wire.. 1 if you antenna is high enough. you could run it straight down.. or more than that make an x or so out of it on the bottom...

i use a dipole..2 piece 110" of 12/2 house wire.. you could use what ever gauge... 3 pvc pipes and my tree... solder one wire on the feedline, other on the shield. used the pvc pipe with 2 hole drilled it in for each of the wires.. then used the other piece on the end with 1 hole drilled.. wrapped the excess wire around the pvc until my swr's where low.. i had them at 1.3.. right now there 1.5 but my coax is put together with barrel connectors and i think maybe some moisture has gotten in them.. but it works pretty well for a hidden antenna gonna try to raise that baby up some when the weather breaks.

Thanks. How did you conceal the pvc? Seems that it would be very visible.

Big Ben,
That "groundplane" thingy isn't exactly what you might think it it. It is what amounts to the 'other half' of an antenna, the vertical part being only half of it. That 'other half' can be a wire, or tubing, or a vehicle's metal body. It's 'shape' is variable to a large extent, but do have to have a couple of electrical characteristics to 'work' right. That's why car bodies or those radials on a groundplane type antenna work at all. The one thing that is common to all of those 'other half's is that they are conductive, gotta be metal of some kind. Another thingy that they have in common is that they use something called 'coupling' to make up for any 'size' differences. Which is why mag-mount antennas work at all. One of the things that a car body does is 'couple' with the dirt/concrete/whatever the vehicle is sitting on. The car's metal body acts as one capacitor plate, the stuff it's sitting on acts as the other plate of a capacitor, so it's capacitivelly coupled.
An indoor antenna as you propose isn't going to have a lot it can 'couple to in an average kind of house, just not much metal in a house sort of. So, giving that antenna something to use as it's 'other half' is a very good idea. That can be just a length of wire or whatever. It does have to have a particular size though. That size is usually the same 'length' as the other part of the antenna, or about 8 - 9 feet of conductor. One very nice way of thinking about that is in terms of a dipole antenna. One half of it vertical, the other half horizontal. Wanna add another 'horizontal' leg to it to make it sort of symmetrical? That'll work too, add as many as you want (or that she will let you get away with). You gotta have at least one, more won't hurt anything.
And because everything around an antenna affects it's 'tune', you will have to tune that antenna to get it 'right'. that usually means adjusting the lengths of the vertical and horizontal pieces. Those vertical and horizontal parts typically work out to around 104 inches, give or take an inch or two. Start too long and work down, is the easiest way of going about it.
Have fun.
- 'Doc

Thanks for the clarifications. I knew about about how the groundplane had to be something conductive so it could act as the "other half" of the antenna. I'd kinda heard about the coupling with the ground thing, but your explanation furthered my understanding.

I also plan on starting out with wire that is too long, and trimming it back for a good swr. About the radials: No matter how many you have, should they all be the same length as the vertical radiator?

you could not GIVE me a house in a H.O.A.

have fun, and good luck

It is a pain at times.

My vertical antenna is inside the trees and comes above the tree line. It is painted green. I also have poles inside the trees which I run wire for my other antennas. Are you allowed to put up a flag pole? You want to fly old glory as high as you can get her and the antenna would be right under their noses.

I'm pretty sure flag poles are banned, or I could have one nice antenna. (and patriotic too!) Thanks for the input though. About the poles: Where are they? Right up next to the trunk of the tree? And how big of a tree are we talkin here? Thanks.

['Doc]

Big Ben,
About those radials, if in the ground, then whatever length you can manage, at least as long as the vertical portion, but longer if possible, and as many as possible. That's because of how dirt contributes to 'losses', so the more 'conductive' it is the better it is. How do you know when you've got enough of them? Easy! When you get to the point where you are sick and tired of putting them in, add two more just for the #**Censored** of it. Unfortunately, that's not as much joke as it sounds like.

And just as a sort of 'excuse'. If you happen to have a tree out there that sort of leans in one direction or another. Use the vertical portion of that antenna as a sort of 'stop' on the side that the tree leans away from, to keep it from leaning any further. Is that really going to make the thing straighten up? Of course not, but that's what you tell the neighbors or HOA. Wha'da they know, right?? You can see it on their faces that they think you're an idiot, and the smug look because they know that little wire won't work and you don't! BUT... an antenna in plain sight.
- 'Doc

[drdx]

drdx: You were talking about how I should forget about making an antenna with buried radials like you did and said that I should put an all wire antenna up high in the tall trees in my back yard. You also mentioned that you suggest that I make an antenna with horizontal radials, and not a vertical dipole. Why do you suggest this? What advantages would this antenna provide over a vertical dipole? I might be able to pull off the horizontal radial antenna, but I'm concerned about concealabilty. If my neighbors ever see the antenna, I will most likely never be able to put up an outdoor antenna ever again, because both they and the HOA will be looking for it.

I copied in above what I'm answering to. I meant that although my antenna works, it is in no way as good as one that you could have up in a tree. The vertical dipole issue is that for a dipole to work well you really want to make the feedline come away from the antenna at a 90 degree angle as far as possible, and that can be a challenge with a vertical dipole. The simple 1/4 wave vertical with the 9 foot wire connected to the coax center and with 3-4 9 foot radials out horizontal takes care of that issue. The main problem with the ground mounted version like mine is that it is way too low and if there is a lot of structure blocking it then it isn't a stellar performer. Mine works about as good as my mobile does. If I were to sit in my mobile in the driveway and listen, then walk into the house, it would hear about the same. I've talked to several states on it with my 100 watt radio on sideband from my magnolia mount, so it does work. I get out a few miles in town to mobiles and some decent distances out to bases if it isn't too busy, but I'm by no means controlling the airways with it, but compared to not having an antenna at all it works great. I'm assuming that when I'm talking on my 40 watt on am radio that the 40 watts makes up for some of the lowness, so I'm close to what a 4 watt radio would do on a better antenna and my ears are ok but could be better.

As far as being stealth, I'd bet that if you were to stop rolling around with the antenna on that the neighbors would forget in no time at all. Once that is forgotten, a tree antenna is easy to pull off. Put it up in stages or when you know you're without nosy eyes. I did mine in stages, doing the ground radials one day, some of the rest another. My wife is the president of our HOA so if anything the rules apply stronger to me. If you do my idea, pick the tree that is most in the open and feed it with underground conduit as far as the coax. That thread I put out there has more details but it is really a simple deal and has been maintenance free since install. It did blow over once, and that was because I hadn't ziptied the vertical wire to the tree- it was just ran up into it.

Now you may have an advantage that I don't, and that is a taller tree. A taller tree would enable you to really get serious and put up a half or 5/8 wave antenna. A 3/4 works too but many think that the radiation angle of a 3/4 is too high to be practical, but if I had a tree 27 or so feet tall I'd at least try it. If nothing else, I'd have it go up about 23 feet and L off at the top, so basically a 5/8 with top loading. I'm not so sure that a 3/4 wave wouldn't be a great skip antenna with its high angle but only trying it would tell you for sure. I think that with a ground level antenna that height of the vertical part would work wonders and when I'm old and the tree is taller I'll increase it. I went to a 3/8 wave once but didn't see a difference. The radials are the key to it as ground is essential. I have 16 radials but more and longer would be better. I may do some more before spring comes. My radials are 1/8 wave long (4 1/2 feet) so longer would be better. My dream would be to have a ton of them but the yard has to recover. The 16 are and have been invisible since about a month after planting them with my pizza cutter. If your trees are mature it can be hard to plant them if the tree has a bunch of roots around its base.

Get yourself an antenna tuner. I have my antenna matched fine but a tuner may help you really fine tune it (actually, it doesn't tune anything, but it does make the feedpoint more agreeable for the radio). I know that at times I've tuned mine with a tuner when my tree was full of snow but 99% of the time it is fine. Get a tuner, something like an mfj, that has an antenna switch, the tuner itself, and a nice meter built in. It will serve you well and allow you to run more than one antenna for comparison. If you have the urge, do one vertical antenna and one horizontal. The signal difference will vary depending on the one you use. The vertical would be better for local most likely but the horizontal would be a better skip antenna if it is higher.

If you want more input, PM me and send some pictures of your yard and I'll be glad to offer suggestions.

-drdx

[scfcpd7]

I live in a subdivision and did not want a big antenna due to the appearance factor. I built a 1/4 ground plane in the attic. My clearance is about 8 ft and my rafter takes a 30 degree point and I have just bent the top 14 inches in. I added 3 radials to the bottom and tuned. I get about 4 miles range in dense city terrain to a mobile using legal power so I am satisfied. I can talk about 50 miles on my ham 2 meter rig with a 30ft ringo ranger (1 outside antenna is ok and I need it for VHF Public safety Transmit also) but there is something special about that 4 miles with free #8 solid copper.............

[Big Ben]

'Doc: So if I've got this straight, radials, if not in the ground, should be the same length as the vertical radiator. If they are in the ground, they should be as long as you can make them. On both of these, you tune them by reducing the length of the wires. About tuning: Am I going to be tuning this to reduce swr across all channels? Or will the point where the swr dips already be low and adjusting will be just to put the dip at 20 and have it arc up at 1 and 40? If its just to put the dip in the right place, then I would just adjust the vertical radiator, correct? In a previous post, you mention shortening both the vertical radiator and counterpoise, but is this just if the swr is too high on all 40 channels? I hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask. I'm asking it in a strange way, but it's difficult to convey my question through written words. Thanks.

drdx: I really don't know what route to go with this. As you mention, a vertical dipole would require the feed line to come out at a 90 degree angle, which would be difficult to hide. The vertical antenna with horizontal radials would get rid of this requirement, but the radials would also be difficult to hide. Putting radials in the ground would be difficult because of roots/ ground topography, and the house would block much of the signal to one side. Also, I the lowness of the antenna limits performance, and that's something I want to avoid if I can.

scfcpd7: Thanks for the input. I was originally going to put up an indoor antenna but forum members have pretty much convinced me to hide one outside. I'm glad you were able to attain positive results with your indoor setup. I agree, there is something special about an antenna that you build out of simple materials and that performs well.

[drdx]

I don't know how dense your trees are, but you might be surprised how invisible wire in a tree can get, especially when there are leaves on the tree, and that's when most people are outside. When the leaves fall, the antenna is still pretty hard to see unless you're looking for it, and when the leaves are gone it is usually cold and folks aren't out as much. It may really stick out as far as you're concerned but to the untrained eye it may never get noticed. The radials don't have to be the same length as the vertical part. My radials are 1/8 of a wave in length, about 4.5 feet, and there are 16 of them because theyre in the ground. I used a radial recipe from the ARRL book but I would do better with many more that were longer. You can do as little as 3 in the 8.5 foot length range up in the tree and do ok. You can even just do 2 in opposing directions for starters, see how it works, and expand from there. Use some dull material, like copper wire that has been sitting out a while. If you use black insulated wire, be careful as some of it has a clear coating that gets really shiney in the sun.

If anyone sees you erecting this tree deal, tell them you're laying the groundwork for some of those landscape lights that people put up in trees.

I've also done the attic deal with good success, but my home alarm wires run all over up there, along with the fire sensors. I was afraid that with any power I would interfere with it. If you have a good attic, try it. For some really cheap radials in the attic, one dude on here was using aluminum foil, as there is no weather, wind or appearance issue in the attic.

-drdx

[Corn_Bread]

well just about the pvc.. i hide them behind the branches.. lucky i had a branch on the top and the bottom on an angle that i could lay those piece behind... may have to use something else like a gray, brown or green lid of something.. as long as its plastic it should be find... all those are is insulators.. you could even use a limb...

i found out of if you have swr prob. you may have to move the dipole away from the tree some... and keep it straight as possible.. i leaned mine over a lil bit to conceal a lil bit better and swr went up.. straighted back out... good shape...

[Sheriff Bart]

It would be nice if the info given had an illustration(s) showing how the installation would look when finished.


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