Is a peak and tune worth it?

[gunner57]

I am a beginer to the CB hobby. I got started a few years ago while I was working for a bear hunting outfitter in the North Maine Woods. With all the logging trucks, it was a good idea to have a CB to hear the truckers calling where they were on the narrow logging roads so I didn't get smashed on a blind corner. I started with an old Uniden PC76XLW I bought on ebay for about $20. When the radio started to not transmitt off and on, so I decided to purchase a new radio. It was a Galaxy DX929. I had it tuned up when I bought it. At the time I thought it turned up the transmit wattage but now realize it just makes the radio modulate louder. Still the final PEP might go up a hair with the adjustment, but nothing like I had originally envisioned. I recently picked up a Cobra 29 WX NW ST for my off-road pick-up and had that tuned as well. I am starting to wonder if it is worth the money to tune the radios at all. I have read posts from people telling of their stock radio sometimes outperforming "tuned" radios and I am starting to believe them.

I know that when the radios are mass produced, they can't specifically set the radios to the edge of their 4W limit. They have a general tolerance on the frequency and output wattage, as to not risk a large recall, by the FCC, for one radio that might have slipped by with 4.1W instead of 4W. So you can generally expect a radio to do 3 to 3.5W out of the box.

What I am unsure of is why a tuned radio doesn't perform better? My Galaxy is definately louder than my wife's stock radio. But it doesn't really transmit any further than hers does and it should. I know these CB shops are trying to sell more radios and make money. I just don't understand. Even if the shop fine tune the output wattage to exactly 4W and adjusts the frequency to zero tolerance, than the radio should outperform a stock radio easily. I mean, if a radio came from the factory set at 3W and was turned up to 4W that is still 25% more transmit. And setting the freqs to exact spec. instead of a general +/- tolerence should make a lot of difference as well. I don't want a radio that I have to have the squelch turned up more than half-way before the white-noise silences. I don't care about 18W or 22W modulation if I can't even transmit as far as a stock radio. I want my radio to perform well. Who does honest work though? How can you tell the real techs from the hacks. In the amount of time spent "tuning" a radio to make it perform badly, you'd think they could easily make the slight adjustments just to fine tune the radio the way it SHOULD come from the factory as (freq and output).

[Night Crawler]

I am starting to wonder if it is worth the money to tune the radios at all.

No,the only reason that it should be done is if the radio is out of alignment.

if a radio came from the factory set at 3W and was turned up to 4W that is still 25% more transmit.

Which won't even be noticable on the receiving stations S meter if you want to make a difference get an amplifier instead of throwing the money away on a tune up.

[genesbro]

If you can't do it your self I say just leave it alone. If you want louder modulation get a power mic and if you want more range then do like the other poster said and get an amp. If you get a peak and tune and they start clipping out parts then you can get one that is loud or one that is splattering all over the place, better odds in vegas.

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi gunner57,

If you can do it yourself or pay no more than a power mic, then a peaking would not hurt. It is much more effective when using SSB. The most Important part of any radio system is the antenna. All the power in the world will not make a difference if you have a high SWR or a bad antenna system.

A cheap low power radio will do fine on a good antenna system, but a Big Rig on a bad antenna system still will not work.
The three most important components, in order, for a good radio system in my humble opinion is:

1) The antenna system
2) The radio
3) The antenna system

Respectfully,

[gunner57]

My antenna systems are decent, at least I think they are. My chevy has a wilson 1000 with my SWR (on my ext. meter) about 1.2 on ch 1 and 1.2 on ch 40. My ford with a co-phase 4' top loaded fiberglass whips isn't quite as good with 1.5 on ch 1 and 1.7 on ch 40. Both well within the safe operating limits though. It just doesn't seem like they are anything but a little louder than my wife's stock radio, and they don't reach much farther than hers either. The only reason they DO reach a little further than hers is, I am sure, because she has a dinky 35" magnet mount K30. I am trying to get schematics and info on adjusting radios. I am worried about correct info. Seems like different sites are specifying different pots to turn all for the same radio. Who do you listen to? I am pretty confident I could adjust the modulation pots to make it louder and even adjust the PEP output to 4 watts. I don't know where to begin with playing with fine tuning the frequencies.

I that both radios I have that have been tuned have had the recieve played with. I have to turn up the squelch at least half way most of the time or my radio drives me crazy with all the static.

[Night Crawler]

I am trying to get schematics and info on adjusting radios. I am worried about correct info. Seems like different sites are specifying different pots to turn all for the same radio. Who do you listen to?

Get those schematics and learn how to read them then you'll know which pots and inductors are the correct ones to adjust yourself without depending on getting that information from a site.

[WV 545]

I agree with Night Crawler... however, until you learn how to read schematics you can call one of out sponsors and ask your questions. Mention that you are a member of the CBRT forum. Who knows, you may even want to send the radio out if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself. Read what the members are saying about the different sponsors' work and pick one out. They are all good or else we woudl hear about them on the forum.

[gunner57]

Who knows, you may even want to send the radio out if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself.

Well that is the whole question in the first place. There are many shops out there who claim to boost your CB into a monster radio. The problem is finding which one you want working on it. I have found, no matter the subject in question, that people who buy "super products" claim what great things they are when it is just because they want it to. How many people do you know who put K&N air filters in their cars when they first came out and claimed it made a noticable difference in horsepower? They don't. 3 hp is like turning off your A/C. Yet people still raved about the power increase they got. They want to believe it made their car faster to the point they believe that it did. It is really all in their head. I wonder if more instances than not are true in the CB world. People don't want to admit they spent all kinds of extra money for nothing and a stock radio would perform as well or better than the super-mod radio. All the shops claim they are the good techs and beware of everyone else. Obvioulsy if they are all saying it, I assume, most of them are lying. Which is the good shops? I have bought two tuned radios from Clay's Radio shop. My Galaxy does perform well, but the second radio I bought had to be sent back. They took it back to look it over at my cost to ship it back to them. In the end after shipping, tuning, and re-shipping; I bought a Cobra 29 series radio for $235 once it was finally installed and working. Ouch, and I get constant road noise unless I turn the squelch up 3/4 or turn the RF gain way down. So where did I gain? I spent lots of money for a noisy radio. Was it the shop? I don't know. They had some pretty good reviews. I think my Galaxy I bought from them works well, but maybe it is just a good radio either way. Who should work on my radios? GI Joes, Radioactive Radio, Right Channel Radio, Walcott CB? I think they all decieve people in their ads to make them think they are getting more performance than they are.

[preacherman]

I guess I'll be the dissenting voice here. Not all shops are simply out to take advantage
or take your money. Will a stock radio perform as well...or better? Not a chance. The
variance between individual radios as they come off the line is fairly wide. What's more,
it isn't just about what the 's' meter says, it's about what you hear...and who can hear you.

A properly tuned receiver will hear better than an untuned one...period. Will it meet your
expectations? Can't say. If you have a lot of road noise...there aren't any radios that will
reject all noise and give you just signal. Can they be improved? Yes. Is the improvement
worth it to you? That's your call.

With all that said, the best money you'll spend on your system is on your antenna and your coax.
Doesn't matter how good the radio is if those two things aren't up to snuff. If you have a good
antenna/coax system, a well tuned radio will talk farther and hear weaker signals than one that
has had nothing done to it. I could get into numbers etc...but the bottom line is that unless
you want to run an amp, the only other choice to improve performance is to maximize the performance
of the equipment you have.

[mat_me]

What is the landscape like in your area? Are there mountains and valleys, trees, hi-rise buildings, or flat plains? Excuse my poor geographic knowledge. Your signal will carry farther from the mountain tops than the bottom of the valleys. Terrain can play a large roll in transmitting and receiving. As far as turning up your squelch... does the interference or elec. noise seem like it comes from your truck/car? There are many factors to consider when looking into the issue of power and distance. Where does you radio get power from? the battery directly, or through cig. lighter adapter or fuse panel? a small guage wire can limit power, but not likely too much on a 4 watt radio. Where is your radio grounded to? Just a few things that can easily be over looked. good luck. Mat. :r&r:

[gunner57]

What is the landscape like in your area? Are there mountains and valleys, trees, hi-rise buildings, or flat plains? Excuse my poor geographic knowledge. Your signal will carry farther from the mountain tops than the bottom of the valleys. Terrain can play a large roll in transmitting and receiving. As far as turning up your squelch... does the interference or elec. noise seem like it comes from your truck/car? There are many factors to consider when looking into the issue of power and distance. Where does you radio get power from? the battery directly, or through cig. lighter adapter or fuse panel? a small guage wire can limit power, but not likely too much on a 4 watt radio. Where is your radio grounded to? Just a few things that can easily be over looked. good luck. Mat. :r&r:

Fairly flat with some small rolling hills around town. There are the northern end of the appalacian mountains about 15 miles away.

I am sure the noise is mostly from the truck. It didn't do it before it was tuned (the shop forgot to tune it and I had to send it back at my expense). I expected more noise after the tune, but it is really bad. I had originally run it right to the battery but have since re-routed it to the fuse panel. When I get a minute I am going to try to change the ground and go right to the frame. My heater control was removed (vandalism) from the truck and I used the ground wire from that (about a 4 or 6 ga wire). I'll see if that helps. If that doesn't work, I just don't know.

[gunner57]

A properly tuned receiver will hear better than an untuned one...period.

I agree. But that is the quote du jour. Properly tuned. But how to separate who properly tunes and who clips/cuts/hacks a radio into a scratchy noisy mess.

[WV 545]

Tune... yes!
Peak... why?

[Night Crawler]

But how to separate who properly tunes and who clips/cuts/hacks a radio into a scratchy noisy mess.

To find someone qualified look for someone who held at one time a First or Second Class Radio Telephone Operators License or now has a General Radio Telephone Operators License that also has a degree in Electronic Technology and worked as a Electronic Service Technician professionally in radio communications.

[gunner57]

Tune... yes!
Peak... why?

I think I agree. Tune and if I want to be louder I'll buy a power mic. Pretty much, if the factory took care and the time that mass production doesnt allow, make the radio how they intended it to work.

But how to separate who properly tunes and who clips/cuts/hacks a radio into a scratchy noisy mess.

To find someone qualified look for someone who held at one time a First or Second Class Radio Telephone Operators License or now has a General Radio Telephone Operators License that also has a degree in Electronic Technology and worked as a Electronic Service Technician professionally in radio communications.

Got any shop recomendations if I can ever spring the money for another radio?

[Night Crawler]

Got any shop recomendations if I can ever spring the money for another radio?

No I don't but what I would suggest is to inquire at the shop that you choose to do the work if the Technician has a GROL(general radiotelephone operators license).
That license which is issued by the FCC certifies that the holder is qualified in the electronic fundamentals and techniques required to adjust,repair and mantain radio transmitters and receivers.

[Bigmic919]

Another thought on finding someone to tune is to find people that have had their radios before and get there opinions. That will help as well.

[Tucker442]

Hey Gunner I've had a few out of the box that worked ok but just not a screamer, also bought some used that were the same way. You would be surprised how a little tweaking will make a everyday radio really stand out. Now do the radio shops all do that with a peak and tune? The only results that I can say is my 257 Magnum HP that I got from Sparkys kicked butt right out of the box and worked 100%. I didn't have to do anything except turn down some of the knobs on the front to make it sound good on SSB. I ran the mic gain about half way up, anymore was too much for clear audio, so they did their job on that one. I just got a Magnum S9 from another shop, when it got here it didn't even do 20 watts and sideband output was low also, I paid them for a peak and tune and feel I wasted my money. I went to CB Tips and Tricks, found which adjustments did what and got another 10 watts out of just turning the SSB output up, it was at set about a quarter the way up so really those guys did nothing to tune that radio. So my experience has been either buy from Sparkys, use your local guy or just don't pay for the peak and tune and leave it alone. Just my 2 cents

[gunner57]

yeah, I finally got my wife to help me test my new radio and system. It wasn't really te results I was hoping for. My peaked and tuned Cobra 29 isn't even as loud nor does it transmit as far as my wife's compact Midland 1001z, which is stock. The reciever makes so much noise (even with anl, nb, and sound tracker) or it just doesn't recieve at all. What a piece of junk. Between purchase, shipping, shipping back to the company to tune the radio after they forgot the first time; my radio cost me about $235 and my wifes new compact Midland that I bought for $25 dollars on ebay not just out performs my "tuned screamer", but it kicks the s#*t out of it. I am so **Censored** off. It is funny that the advertisement right above this quote is the shop that destroyed my radio. At least the talkback they installed squeals every time I talk into the mic.

[gunner57]

But how to separate who properly tunes and who clips/cuts/hacks a radio into a scratchy noisy mess.

To find someone qualified look for someone who held at one time a First or Second Class Radio Telephone Operators License or now has a General Radio Telephone Operators License that also has a degree in Electronic Technology and worked as a Electronic Service Technician professionally in radio communications.

So, got anyone in particular you could recomend?

[Tucker442]

I've had very good luck with Dave at DTB radio in Carlisle PA, he has a web site and has a fast turn around time too. I read a lot about Sparky's also, funny you said something about the advertisment above your comment I've had issues with them also and I'm not a guy that's hard to please as long as you do something for the money you took from me.

['Doc]

A well tuned radio will usually out perform a radio that's not so well tuned. I think that's pretty easy to understand. From there is starts getting very "iffy". Expecting there to be a huge difference in performance is just not to reasonable. Some sure, but not all that a dramatic improvement. It just isn't reasonable to expect much 'improvement' in power output unless you make major modifications to a stock radio, they are not capable of it. 'Quality' maybe, 'quantity', not likely. A change in antennas can/might make more difference than just more power.
The biggy with any 'peak & tune' is the knowledge of the person doing it, and the equipment he has to do it with. Expecting to do a good job without -both- of those things (knowledge/equipment) is sort of silly. Just ain't gonna happen without a humongus amount of luck! (Don't know about you, but I've never been that 'lucky'.) And it won't be "free".
I can't/won't try to recommend any place to do that sort of thing, I just don't have recent experience dealing with them.
Good luck.
- 'Doc

[Tucker442]

Well Doc just an experience I had in the last few weeks, I bought a new Magnum S-9, paid for a peak and tune, the radio is advertised to do between 40 and 45 watts with it's dual mosfet finals, it got here and didn't even do 20 watts on SSB on any channel with me whistling in the mic. I called Magnum, talked to Sam Lewis, he had me send it to one of his factory repair facilities, not to where I bought it. He said it should do at least 40 watts and if it has a good tune 50 so he knew that it was not working correctly and is taking care of me by doing the factory repair . So I got charged for a peak and tune of what?? They didn't tune or peak anything but my wallet, it's a little lighter now for nothing.

[gunner57]

A well tuned radio will usually out perform a radio that's not so well tuned. I think that's pretty easy to understand. From there is starts getting very "iffy". Expecting there to be a huge difference in performance is just not to reasonable. Some sure, but not all that a dramatic improvement. It just isn't reasonable to expect much 'improvement' in power output unless you make major modifications to a stock radio, they are not capable of it. 'Quality' maybe, 'quantity', not likely. A change in antennas can/might make more difference than just more power.
The biggy with any 'peak & tune' is the knowledge of the person doing it, and the equipment he has to do it with. Expecting to do a good job without -both- of those things (knowledge/equipment) is sort of silly. Just ain't gonna happen without a humongus amount of luck! (Don't know about you, but I've never been that 'lucky'.) And it won't be "free".
I can't/won't try to recommend any place to do that sort of thing, I just don't have recent experience dealing with them.
Good luck.
- 'Doc

I hear you. I wasn't really looking for huge improvement, or high wattage. Just to make it sound a little louder and sqeeze a little more on the recieve. It just went the other way. I am going to do what tucker442 tried. I'll call the manufacturer (Cobra) and see what advice they may give for repairing the recieve on the radio.

['Doc]

Give it a shot. If you haven't been where 'Tucker442' has been it's just a matter of time. Everybody get's there eventually, the 'tighter' wallet thingy.
Realistic expectations is the biggy. Don't expect a world of difference unless the thing is really trashy to start with. Some improvements, sure, but usually not huge ones.
Not a very 'happy' thought, huh?
- 'Doc