JJD. Predator question.

[StrykerLiker]

Sir JJD,

Have u heard of anyone using a double coil short whip with a 27in bottom?

Are the double coils ever gonna come with the thicker insulator?

Why is the Comp+ only available up to 22" lower shaft?

Can I put a 27in shift on a Comp+ or are they different connections?

Why does every CB shop say they are good friends with Kale, but half don't even have his antennas? LoL.

[jessejamesdallas]

Sir JJD,

Have u heard of anyone using a double coil short whip with a 27in bottom?

Are the double coils ever gonna come with the thicker insulator?

Why is the Comp+ only available up to 22" lower shaft?

Can I put a 27in shift on a Comp+ or are they different connections?

Why does every CB shop say they are good friends with Kale, but half don't even have his antennas? LoL.

You can use the 27" shaft with the dual coils, but I wouldn't recommend it...Having two coils on the longer shafts catch more wind drag. The shafts are made of real thin aluminum, and with the amount of wind drag caused by having two coils can cause the shaft to snap at the base easier...This is why Kale does not offer the dual coil or the Bad to the Bone, or the Comp-Coil 10K's with the longer shaft... The bigger the coil, or more turns in the coil, causes more wind drag.

As for thicker insulators on the dual coils, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting...It's all Kale can do, to keep up with orders for the antenna's he offers now! And the dual coil antenna's take more time to build than the single coils, so I doubt he will be coming out with one anytime soon...

Kale is for the most part a "One man Show", and at 74 years young he has more than he can handle now...(which is why it's hard to get him to answer emails, and also why you don't see him too much anymore posting on the Forums...Just not enough hours in a day.)

But to answer your question...All the Predators can be taken apart, and reassembled in any configuration you can come up with...But just remember, with the 22 and 27" shaft, if you put one of the larger coils or a set of dual coils on, your going to add more stress to the bottom of the shaft where it screws into the mount.

Here is a picture of one of my 27" shaft, single coil 10K's where they break at the base.
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I hit a tree branch with this one, and snapped it...And it wasn't that hard a hit...I've got another one that took a hit from a Red Tailed Hawk that broke in the same place too...I've never had one to snap just from wind drag tho, but what will happen is with all the drag and flexing of the antenna, after a while the aluminum is going to get weakened and the least little thing that hits the antenna would cause it to snap.

-- June 14 2014, 0:18 AM --

Can I put a 27in shift on a Comp+ or are they different connections?

It depends...Some of the first Comp-Coils Kale built used different threading than the regular 10K's, and on those the regular 10K parts are NOT interchangeable... He later changed the threading I think on the Comp coils so they would interchange, but I know the first ones had larger threading on all the parts.

Same go's for the 30K's...The first ones (like I have) have larger threads, the later ones tho had the regular threading like the rest of the Predators.

[StrykerLiker]

Thanks Mr. JJD.

I copy the wind drag. I have been trying to go higher with my coil to get over the roof line and of course my antenna gets taller and taller.

I hit trees sometimes now, and the other day I hit a 13' 9" bridge, hard, 65 mph hard... antenna is intact, but if I'm gonna go a little higher with the coil still, I need a way to go lower with the tip.

The 22 inch shaft leaves the bottom of the coil about 2 inches below my roofline.

The 27 would be perfect. (Just ordered one) I'm gonna try to mimic my current over all length and chop the snot out of the new stinger. I'm hoping the lack of reflection from the coil being on a better ground plane and away from the horizontal will allow me to actually go shorter than I am now.

I have a 17 now with 30 inches of shaft and 37 inch of stinger sticking out. 67" total and 14' from Corona to asphalt.

If I can't get the 27 to tune under 14 feet then I'm gonna have to Frankenstein a Predator Hybrid 10k.

I think I'd rather take wind drag than hit anymore bridges :D

Thanks for the info Master J.

[Deleted User 14541]

It will probably break since I can't keep my mouth shut but my 17 inch shaft has been beaten around for a long time. I'd rather break the antenna off than damage the roof. A stronger antenna isn't better IMO....I'm partial to a predator since they are made locally.

[jessejamesdallas]

It will probably break since I can't keep my mouth shut but my 17 inch shaft has been beaten around for a long time. I'd rather break the antenna off than damage the roof. A stronger antenna isn't better IMO....I'm partial to a predator since they are made locally.

Yep...whole lot cheaper to fix a broken shaft than it is to fix a hole ripped open on your roof....

[craig_sez]

I just had some 18" shafts made for my duel coils..It tuned damn near as perfect as anyone can get..My shafts are not hollo but now that im reading this thread im happy with them as a solid..
Most likely ill pull off the top coil and see what happens in the tuneing end..

[StrykerLiker]

I just had some 18" shafts made for my duel coils..It tuned damn near as perfect as anyone can get..My shafts are not hollo but now that im reading this thread im happy with them as a solid..
Most likely ill pull off the top coil and see what happens in the tuneing end..

Interesting Mr. How did u find person to make the shafts and was it expensive. I need some stuff made for custom mounting, but I don't know how to go about looking for a fabricator...

[jessejamesdallas]

I just had some 18" shafts made for my duel coils..It tuned damn near as perfect as anyone can get..My shafts are not hollo but now that im reading this thread im happy with them as a solid..
Most likely ill pull off the top coil and see what happens in the tuneing end..

Interesting Mr. How did u find person to make the shafts and was it expensive. I need some stuff made for custom mounting, but I don't know how to go about looking for a fabricator...

Might try "GPucks"...He custom makes risers for 102" whips, so he may be able to fab up whatever you need...just Google GPucks.

[PA629]

I just had some 18" shafts made for my duel coils..It tuned damn near as perfect as anyone can get..My shafts are not hollo but now that im reading this thread im happy with them as a solid..
Most likely ill pull off the top coil and see what happens in the tuneing end..

Interesting Mr. How did u find person to make the shafts and was it expensive. I need some stuff made for custom mounting, but I don't know how to go about looking for a fabricator...

I'm sure Breedlove will either have or can fab whatever you might need. Just Google Breedlove mounts.

[StrykerLiker]

Nice, thanks gentle men.

[craig_sez]

I just went to a local machine shop with my predator..Siad "make me this exact shaft but longer,18".....So i pulled off my any,seperated the 8 " shaft and said heres your template to work with"..

[StrykerLiker]

Cool, thanks for the info. It tuned up pretty good too? Did you tune swr, or x?

[Buzzweiser]

I have a local here that made me a thick walled (.275) aluminum riser to use for modifying my base antenna from a 1/2 wave to 5/8 using a 102" whip. It took a larger threading at the bottom to screw into the fiberglass section of the antenna. He's also made me a few custom sized risers with the 3/8 -24 threads for mobile use. There's always someone out there who'll make what you're looking for if they can make a dollar off of it.

[jessejamesdallas]

I have a local here that made me a thick walled (.275) aluminum riser to use for modifying my base antenna from a 1/2 wave to 5/8 using a 102" whip. It took a larger threading at the bottom to screw into the fiberglass section of the antenna. He's also made me a few custom sized risers with the 3/8 -24 threads for mobile use. There's always someone out there who'll make what you're looking for if they can make a dollar off of it.

True...There's always someone out there that will make you anything you want...........OR, you can just call Kale and order a shaft from him which will keep your Predator 10K 100% "Predator 10K!"

[StrykerLiker]

I ended up buying a
'Flat-top' Peterbilt, and a 17" 10k competition +

Just so that the antenna can sit comfortably over the roofline, and low enough to not hit bridges.

Lmao. Obsession is a killer.

[craig_sez]

Cool, thanks for the info. It tuned up pretty good too? Did you tune swr, or x?

I went with swr but im still learning and a bit confused..My swr seems good my r is a lil high in the 70's and x is either 0 and crawls up to the 20's when i go down or up the channels,dont remember..

I bought the 100th edition aarl book but thats all chinese to me...Wasted the $ buyin the damn book..

[Deleted User 14541]

I bought the 100th edition aarl book but thats all chinese to me...Wasted the $ buyin the damn book..

They'll make sense one day. I've had books for years that Im just starting to understand. I have others that are still Chinese. If the learning ever stops ill find another hobby.

[The DB]

Cool, thanks for the info. It tuned up pretty good too? Did you tune swr, or x?

I went with swr but im still learning and a bit confused..My swr seems good my r is a lil high in the 70's and x is either 0 and crawls up to the 20's when i go down or up the channels,dont remember..

That R at resonance does seem a bit high for my taste. You might consider looking up something called RF Bonding, that should help get it down some. Also, a Field Strength Meter would be an excellent addition to your toolkit, it would allow you to measure the radiated strength of the antenna directly. Plus they only cost $30 or $40 from MFJ.

I understand the difficulty in understanding things like antenna theory, there is a lot there to pick up. I'll give you some basics for starters.

SWR is the defacto standard simply because SWR meters are prevalent and cheap. Because of this many people treat this reading as effectively the King of readings, even after they get much more advanced tools. Its real importance in the grand scheme of things is limited to telling you weather it is safe to plug that coax into your radio or not. That is it. There are many many misconceptions that are taken as golden, such as "reflection loss" where it is assumed that 100% of the reflected power is lost (which in the real world is not the case due to a phenomena called re-reflection). I can go on about SWR, but I'll stop here, if you want more info I'll get a link on its history. I know there is a page on e-ham.com about it.

Now on to the X and R variables.

Many people will tell you that X is more important than R, and when asked why will tell you its because of reactance or resonance or something like that. The reality is, X is the more important variable when tuning simply because as you move away from an antennas optimal length, the curve for the X variable moving away from its optimal amount is actually steeper than the curve for R. Another way of saying that is when tuning an antenna by adjusting its length, the X variable will change by a given amount with a smaller change than the R variable will, so X is more sensitive to antenna length changes. Its that simple.

The R variable has implications that are rarely brought up on a forum such as this. If you ask what R is people will tell you it is the antenna's "Impedance" or "Resistance" (what these words mean is a topic in itself, just see them as being close to the same thing for now). This is true but it isn't the whole story. A few might say that R is the antenna's "Radiation Resistance", which is actually half right, and a step in the right direction. What R is is a combination of Radiation Resistance and Loss Resistance. So now you are likely wondering what is this stuff... An antennas Radiation Resistance is the equivalent resistance that represents the power actually transmitted from the antenna. It is seen as the good loss, or the desirable loss. Loss Resistance is the resistance that represents the power that is absorbed by the antenna but not radiated. What happens to this power? It is turned to heat. What is the cause of Loss Resistance? There are many, but in a vehicle, the biggest cause of Loss Resistance is an inadequate ground plane. A vehicle's body simply doesn't do a good job at being the antenna's ground plane.

So what can you do to make your antenna perform better? The first thing is to work to lower that R value, the goal should be to get it below R = 50. As a first step I would look up RF Bonding as I mentioned above. There is some good info on it on the web, and it should help your antenna system out more than anything else by increasing the effectiveness of the vehicle's body as the antenna's ground plane.

My best advice is don't give up, this stuff can be tough, especially for some, but its not impossible to learn. There are plenty of people on this and other forums that will offer opinions and advice that may be of help so don't be afraid to ask questions.


The DB

[craig_sez]

DB...Seems everytime i think i learn something it turns out to be bs or wrong in every respect..Sometimes the lingo used just totally confuses me all to hell and its like talkin a different language all together..
Im gonna go out and tinker but ill take some pics of what my mfj tells me and post here..See if you can tell me why i get 3-5 mi tops with my set up yet i hear stuff 100's of miles away..

-- Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:48 pm --

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[halfwatt959]

The reason you can hear all over is because of skip,[where the radio signals skip off the ionosphere]. A cb receiver is a wonderful and strange thing. You can receive signals on a coat hanger but you can't transmit on it. With your set up as it is someone 10 miles away may not hear you but someone out in skip land might even though they may be 100s or even 1000s of miles away. I cant really explain it very well as my own grasp of the subject is still somewhat lacking. In other words I know it but don't know how or cant explain it. There are others here who have way more knowledge and airtime than me who can better tell you and explain how it works like Mr. Rick the cb doctor, D.B. and Mr M.D. Youngblood not to mention J.J.D. and 543. Maybe one of those fellas can help you more. But to put it bluntly, a cb radio has a transmitter portion and a receiver portion hence the name transceiver. The receiver part is a lot more sensitive or, this is not the best description, more powerful than the transmiting part due to government regulations. Hope I haven't confused you to much and best of luck. 73s Karl

[craig_sez]

TKS halfwatt..

Ok did some messing around and got some better #'s..
On my 10k with 18"shaft and top coil with 5 loops and approx 2inch longer mast(part whip fits into,my #'s were.
26965 r=29 274050 r=37
x=1 x=5
swr=1.7 swr=1.3

On a older predator with same 18" shaft and one less wrap on top coil and the approx 2"inch shorter mast..
26965 r=43 274050 r=63
x=12 x=12
swr=1.3 swr =1.3


Now on the newer 10k ant the mast seems a bit beefier but with older ant it seems i got better numbers....Now with one less loop on the top coil and shorter mast my whip also went a cpl inches higher to tune...

Thoughts or questions on maybe improveing still a bit more..

[halfwatt959]

I would say go with the older ant. since the numbers are better.

[craig_sez]

Thats whats on it now..Think when i get on the road thursday ill have to see what its like..New rigs commin in soon so i dont wanna get nads deep into rf bonding...My luck is ill just get it it somewhat figured out and my new truck will be in...Bad enough ill have to start the process all over again on a new volvo or cascadia..lol Im thinking they are the trucks with the biggest pain in the butt to ground..

-- Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:28 am --

Think it will help if i moved my ant out from mid mirror arm to original ant mount..Its about 6 inches further out and a few inches lower..

[halfwatt959]

Usualy higher is better as long as you aren't scraping bridges and overpasses.