New Amp
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Popcorn501
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distortion69
Your whole entire logic is flawed popcorn.. I will try to start at the beginning to explain to you why your argument makes no sense.. and you are spreading false information.
First of all.. Let us use your example of a 1x1446(or 2290) driving 2x2879 transistors... or what we know as a 3 pill. Let us assume that your output numbers are correct... at 120 watts peak per 2879 transistor. The 1 pill is a driver pill.. this pill is used to excite the 2 output finals, which means.. that the driver's watt rating has no bearing on the total output of the box as long as the 2x2879's are being adequately driven.
So.. based on your logic, that would mean that a 3 pill amplifier puts out 240 watts peak when driven with 80 watts. The 2 output finals do 120 peak watts a piece. Do you really seriously think that a 3 pill can't put out more than 240 watts?
Your voltage claims are also highly skewed. First of all, no vehicle runs at 12 volts.. Most charge at closer to 13.5-14.0 volts under a load. Which means, that, if the amplifier is seeing a voltage of 13.5 volts.. then it will run at 13.5 volts.. It doesn't magically drop to 12.. the voltage just doesn't automatically disappear. Secondly.. voltage on such a small current draw is not very much power difference.. Why? Ohm's Law. Look it up.
Now, if you had a 4 pill inline pulling 75-80 amps, then yes.. you could expect a couple of hundred watts of difference in output with 2-3 volts. Simply because current * voltage = watts.
A 2 pill amplifier pulling 35-40 amps, based on your post you believe a 3 pill could conceivably output 500 watts at 15 volts. But if you drop it to 13.6 volts in a vehicle, 1.4 volts * 35-40 amps doesn't equate to very much power loss. Furthermore, even running at 12 volts with a 3 volt difference, would still put you at doing near 400 watts at 12 volts, in comparison to 500 at 15 volts.
Yes you will have some signal being put out in the form of harmonics, but ultimately, a 400-500 watt 3 pill is going to whoop the **Censored** out of a underdriven AB biased 2 pill with little harmonics. Just because you gain a little more harmonic output, doesn't mean you aren't gaining more on frequency as well. Even your average AB biased ultra clean amplifier could conceivably put out more than 120 watts a pill. Those ratings are likely based on some sort of commercial continous duty w/ very low output distortion levels. Not rated specifically for cb radio boneheads.
Some things I've said in here could be debated.. but for the most part it is a hell of alot closer to correct over what you are saying.. which leads me to believe that you don't actually know the math you are pretending to know.. simply because it is stuff most children learn in middle school (i did).
Either way, misleading this guy to believe his box is not doing but 120 watts per output pill is false. Regardless of what meter you use. Also trying to lead him to believe his driver pill is to be included in his output is also incorrect.
Later,
Josh
First of all.. Let us use your example of a 1x1446(or 2290) driving 2x2879 transistors... or what we know as a 3 pill. Let us assume that your output numbers are correct... at 120 watts peak per 2879 transistor. The 1 pill is a driver pill.. this pill is used to excite the 2 output finals, which means.. that the driver's watt rating has no bearing on the total output of the box as long as the 2x2879's are being adequately driven.
So.. based on your logic, that would mean that a 3 pill amplifier puts out 240 watts peak when driven with 80 watts. The 2 output finals do 120 peak watts a piece. Do you really seriously think that a 3 pill can't put out more than 240 watts?
Your voltage claims are also highly skewed. First of all, no vehicle runs at 12 volts.. Most charge at closer to 13.5-14.0 volts under a load. Which means, that, if the amplifier is seeing a voltage of 13.5 volts.. then it will run at 13.5 volts.. It doesn't magically drop to 12.. the voltage just doesn't automatically disappear. Secondly.. voltage on such a small current draw is not very much power difference.. Why? Ohm's Law. Look it up.
Now, if you had a 4 pill inline pulling 75-80 amps, then yes.. you could expect a couple of hundred watts of difference in output with 2-3 volts. Simply because current * voltage = watts.
A 2 pill amplifier pulling 35-40 amps, based on your post you believe a 3 pill could conceivably output 500 watts at 15 volts. But if you drop it to 13.6 volts in a vehicle, 1.4 volts * 35-40 amps doesn't equate to very much power loss. Furthermore, even running at 12 volts with a 3 volt difference, would still put you at doing near 400 watts at 12 volts, in comparison to 500 at 15 volts.
Yes you will have some signal being put out in the form of harmonics, but ultimately, a 400-500 watt 3 pill is going to whoop the **Censored** out of a underdriven AB biased 2 pill with little harmonics. Just because you gain a little more harmonic output, doesn't mean you aren't gaining more on frequency as well. Even your average AB biased ultra clean amplifier could conceivably put out more than 120 watts a pill. Those ratings are likely based on some sort of commercial continous duty w/ very low output distortion levels. Not rated specifically for cb radio boneheads.
Some things I've said in here could be debated.. but for the most part it is a hell of alot closer to correct over what you are saying.. which leads me to believe that you don't actually know the math you are pretending to know.. simply because it is stuff most children learn in middle school (i did).
Either way, misleading this guy to believe his box is not doing but 120 watts per output pill is false. Regardless of what meter you use. Also trying to lead him to believe his driver pill is to be included in his output is also incorrect.
Later,
Josh
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Popcorn501
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Rex_foxhound
After reading through this a few times, I think what Popcorn is saying is that if you take a 3 pill and wire it straight to a 12 volt battery with no alternator charging it or anything (just a 12V battery sitting in the floor lol), it will not do 400-500 watts....i think thats what he was trying to say. 
but you also had some very good info there Josh.
thats the way to put your SPSU education into use. lol.
but you also had some very good info there Josh.
thats the way to put your SPSU education into use. lol.
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FordPSD60
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Zumlin
I always look at their numbers as MAXIMUM output and dont think they are false...
I can drive my 2 pill AB harder and turn up the mic gain to get more swing
it will swing to 100 watt AVG and 300+ PEP but I start getting reflect and my SWR climbs.
so i dont trust the PEP numbers after that.
so I probably need a better antenna or the radio or amp sucks or whatever ...anyway
It just seems that if my radio does not swing the PEP and The RMS together is sounds crappy, too much swing and too little dead key,, A two pill, his stryker will probably
drive a bigger amp nice maybe a 4 or5 pill.with 60 watts swinging into it?
The person I got my radio from said it was peaked and tuned...well
it was clipped and had Gumby Modulation...After putting the limiter back is was more manageable with the modulation pot working and the mic gain adjusted right it seemd to drive the 2 pill better..and sound best close up and 20+ miles out.
Never owned a Comp amp yet and the reason why is the discussions about them and the different opinions, not that its a bad thing, there are just so many different opinions.
I am basing my results on people in my area that have been into this stuff, but they also do a lot of SSB, which is what my next radio will be.
I can drive my 2 pill AB harder and turn up the mic gain to get more swing
it will swing to 100 watt AVG and 300+ PEP but I start getting reflect and my SWR climbs.
so i dont trust the PEP numbers after that.
so I probably need a better antenna or the radio or amp sucks or whatever ...anyway
It just seems that if my radio does not swing the PEP and The RMS together is sounds crappy, too much swing and too little dead key,, A two pill, his stryker will probably
drive a bigger amp nice maybe a 4 or5 pill.with 60 watts swinging into it?
The person I got my radio from said it was peaked and tuned...well
it was clipped and had Gumby Modulation...After putting the limiter back is was more manageable with the modulation pot working and the mic gain adjusted right it seemd to drive the 2 pill better..and sound best close up and 20+ miles out.
Never owned a Comp amp yet and the reason why is the discussions about them and the different opinions, not that its a bad thing, there are just so many different opinions.
I am basing my results on people in my area that have been into this stuff, but they also do a lot of SSB, which is what my next radio will be.
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Popcorn501
No that is not what im saying.A 3 pill is not going to do 400 or 500 watts in someones truck unless they volt it.That is what i was trying to tell the guy and someone had to blow it all up into this big deal about oh that isnt how you figure out how much an amp is doing blah blah blah.Well you know what i don't care how you think you figure out how much an amp is doing and if you believe a 3 pill will do 400 or 500 watts than good for you.Because i know it won't i have had 2 of them one Davemade and one davemade copy.End of story!!
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T2W
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Popcorn501
There is no way in hell you are going to see 1000 watts out of 8 1446's.Come on man be real!! But if you want to go that way about it then why am i not see 775 watts out of this cheap Palomar i have here it says 775v right on the front!!!And why doesn't a ts 1600 do 1600 watts it says it right on it,ts 1200 same thing.And if(key word if) a 3 pill is doing 500 watts then why do they not call it a 500(yes i know fatboy does and he is the only one)And then if a 3 pill is doing 500 watts then my 2x4 should be doing 1000 watts by what you are telling me.But guess what it isn't!!!!And it isn't going to do that unless you run the volts up.But the bottom line is the guy said he wanted to see 500 watts out of his m200 and i was just letting him know he wasn't going to see a true 500 watts out of it without upping the volts period.
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Rex_foxhound
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Mighty 1
- Donor
- Posts: 125
- Joined: March 11th, 2007, 8:22 pm
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Well everybody here has the right concept. but it all depends on your setup. I am the one who originally asked the question. I went out on the road this week and took radio and 3 pill box to my own trusted tech who has not lied to me about anything so far and he tested my equipment and we found out that YOU CAN RUN A 3PILL WITH A STRYKER! AND MY PARTICULAR PROBLEM WAS THAT AS DUCK COMMANDER SAID IN THE BEGINNING I WAS NOT THROWING ENOUGH DK INTO THE AMP. I WAS RUNNING MY STRYKER'S VARIABLE POWER ALL THE WAY DOWN AND IT WAS NOT ENOUGH AND THE TECH SAID IT MADE ME SOUND LIKE I WAS TALKING ON ANOTHER CHANNEL. I TURNED UP THE VARIABLE POWER ON THE RADIO AND WHERE I AM RUNNING IT NOW IS GIVING ME AND I QUOTE SOME OF MY FELLOW OPERATORS"TOP CHOICE AUDIO" THANX EVERYBODY FOR THE COMEBACK 
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Mighty 1
- Donor
- Posts: 125
- Joined: March 11th, 2007, 8:22 pm
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058hamer
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distortion69
8 1446's will do 900+ watts in a class c comp box
Just like 4x1446's will do 450
just like 2x1446's will do 225.
I don't think a palomar would quite get those wattage numbers tho..
A stryker radio doesn't swing 70 watts unless its jacked up to swing 70 watts. You can turn them back to 35-40 watts no prob. Still more than i'd put into a 1x2, but it should work as long as the deadkey is low.. which I believe factory doesn't turn down far enough either, but will when modified.
Peace,
Josh
Just like 4x1446's will do 450
just like 2x1446's will do 225.
I don't think a palomar would quite get those wattage numbers tho..
A stryker radio doesn't swing 70 watts unless its jacked up to swing 70 watts. You can turn them back to 35-40 watts no prob. Still more than i'd put into a 1x2, but it should work as long as the deadkey is low.. which I believe factory doesn't turn down far enough either, but will when modified.
Peace,
Josh
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T2W
you are going to kill that amp.Mighty 1 wrote:T2W wrote:YOU CAN NOT RUN A STRYKER INTO A 1x2.
THE OUTPUT FROM THE RADIO IS TOO MUCH.
The stryker has a built in pill and will do an easy 70w.
He is overdriving the amp no matter what deadkey he sets it at.[/quote
I FOUND OUT THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE.
the input is being severly overdriven.
the stryker has enough power to drive a straight 2 pill all by itself.
its output is around 70w or so.
a 2290 usually does around 100w peak.
when you kill the pill in a stryker they are replacing them with 2290 pills.
so essentially you are running a 1x1x2.
good luck!
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distortion69
Agreed.. if your doing 70 watts.. goodbye driver stage. I prefer nothing more than a single final radio doing 20-30 watts. I have seen people with general lee's thrash them with 35-40 watts and they seem to do okay, but if your radio is doing 70 watts.. it is common sense that you will be taking something out.
Might as well get a high drive 2 pill if you have a stryker. Stryker driving 2 pill 2879's driving 8 pill would be a pretty cool setup IMO.
Peace,
Josh
Might as well get a high drive 2 pill if you have a stryker. Stryker driving 2 pill 2879's driving 8 pill would be a pretty cool setup IMO.
Peace,
Josh
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Mighty 1
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- Posts: 125
- Joined: March 11th, 2007, 8:22 pm
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I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GUYS ARE GETTING YOUR INFORMATION FROM. STRYKER ONLY ADVERTISES TO DO ABOUT 60 WATTS NOT 70 AND THE 60 WATTS IS IF IT IS SET UP PERFECTLY. IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS GETTING 70 WATTS FROM ONE IT IS A RARITY. AS I SAID I HAD MINE CHECKED AND MATCHED TO THE AMP AND ALL IS WELL THANX FOR YOUR CONCERN BUT THE WORST THAT COULD EVENTUALLY HAPPEN IN MY CASE IS THAT THE VARIABLE ON THE AMP WILL GO BEFORE ANY OF THE TRANSISTORS WILL.
